rating system mechanics suggestion

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crimson
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rating system mechanics suggestion

Post by crimson » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:36 am

current system of choosing rating for image from drop-down list and then pressing "rate it!" button requires too many unnecessary actions. that prevents lazy users like me from using that system effectively. i suggest to replace it with something simplier, like "five stars" rating in wich you just click at some point at the bar of stars and that sets your rating already. :wink:

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Merun
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Re: rating system mechanics suggestion

Post by Merun » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:10 am

If you are that lazy, I hope you won't post any images :D

And we would need 10 sakura, not 5 stars. Otherwise, a one click rating is a bit fast and I think I would sometime click on it by error instead of disabling a picture. 2 clicks system would be better in my opinion. Click once to choose, reclick on it to valid it.
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crimson
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Re: rating system mechanics suggestion

Post by crimson » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:42 am

lets talk about our hopes and capabilities of lazy people to ensure that everything is ok with images they post in dedicated topics please.

it's not just 2 clicks versus one it's twice more clicks for that by the end of the day. it could make a difference if we talk about setting ratings for many images. there's many of them being posted everyday and i doubt somebody isn't lazy enough to rate more than two or three of them that they really like with our current system.

i think there's no big problem if someone ocassionly hits rating instead of something else. and it can be solved if ratings could be resetted or simply by making enough space between that elements on a page.

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Merun
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Re: rating system mechanics suggestion

Post by Merun » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:16 pm

You are one of those who use an OS with a single click to open a folder or a software?
Resetting the rating has already been denied a long time ago, though for another reason. It might be debatable. Otherwise we can change where it's.
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wrexness
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Re: rating system mechanics suggestion

Post by wrexness » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:26 pm

Whether it may or may not be a perfect solution, starting a discussion about the rating system is not a bad thing. Quite frankly, it is a little clunky. It's not just two mouseclicks (also note that there is a difference between a double-click and two separate mouseclicks, both in terms of function and usage) - in fact, it's not two mouse clicks at all; it's three. It's a click to open the drop-down, visual scan to find your option (which can either be above or below where you click depending on your window), move your mouse to the desired option, click it, move the mouse again, then click 'Rate it!'. That's a lot of work for a decision that I believe takes most users just a couple of seconds - max - to determine.

It's been pretty well established that the rating system doesn't work very well. Most people rate only a handful of images, and when they do rate them, it's normally in a narrow band of scores (i.e. people only rating images they really like - myself included). If the process could be streamlined, maybe people will use the rating system more actively?

P.S. Some distros allow you to play music or run other apps with ZERO clicks - just a mouse hover. Just throwin' that out there, not that it's relevant to the conversation. XD

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Yatchen
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Re: rating system mechanics suggestion

Post by Yatchen » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:37 pm

Rating in general is always going to be a users choice issue, whether it's speedy or not.
The issue I've been finding with the rating system is that it transfers your old ratings over on reposts. That's very nice and convenient, but if one image is a 400 x 400, low quality image someone might rate it a 3, but the newly posted, 1000 x 1000, high quality image is deserving of, and likely to earn, a higher score. However, the rater is stuck with the 3 they had given before, and there's no way to change that, even if the opinion of the image has changed. I don't know why resetting a rating was denied in the past, but maybe being able to reset it for reposts would be nice at the very least.
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wrexness
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Re: rating system mechanics suggestion

Post by wrexness » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:44 pm

Of course it's always going to be a user choice, but there are plenty of lazy people out there, myself included. Speaking for myself, I'd be much more likely to rate more frequently if the rating systems would made quicker and simpler. It's a lot of effort for something that most people wouldn't think too hard about as it currently exists.

And if I remember right, I -think- the reasoning behind not allowing undos on ratings was to prevent people from raising or lowering their own rating after seeing the real rating. i.e. Person votes an image a 7, but sees it's getting a 1. The person's opinion on the image hasn't changed, but they could want to go back and give it a 10 to see that the average is skewed higher to what the rater believes the image deserves. But I only have a vague recollection of that whole discussion.

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Merun
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Re: rating system mechanics suggestion

Post by Merun » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:55 pm

You should read again what was being said. I know that we need currently 3 clicks. Crimson suggested a one click solution, though as for ergonomic, you always need a confirmation, so I went with a 2 clicks solution.

As for the rating system, yes it's clunky. I have been monitoring a little bit what happen with images and I see some pattern.

-The one I use, is rating images I really really like, then I rate the image in the top image page. I use every rating.
-User rating only images they like, so they usually have rating between 7 and 10
-User rating by extreme, with 1, 5, and 10.

Also there is time bias, as long top favorite image will get a lot of good mark at the beginning, then get slightly worse.
I also think that there is a bias with the baleysian system since some people want to change the rating of an image. Having lower rating does have an influence on this.

Compared to last year, when the top image page was quite still, in recent month it seems that there is a lot of movement so I think that the rating system is more used.

Sometimes I do tend to rate image lower due to size...
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Yatchen
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Re: rating system mechanics suggestion

Post by Yatchen » Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:18 pm

Oh, I can see that as an issue. I never worry about others' ratings though, so I didn't think about it. >.<
I rate things lower due to size and quality quite often, though I don't know how many people total do that. If I can't make out the face on a person because of JPEG artifacts, I'm not going to give it a 10 (that's very exaggerated though). If someone posts a higher quality version of a nice image, my opinion on it may change from a 7 to an 8 or a 9, and quite easily really.
I try to rate all the images I favorite, and then if there's an image I like but isn't a favorite I'll rate that too. I don't generally even bother to open images I don't like or are from a series I'm not interested in (unless it's pretty or the size is large and I want to see it), so I'm not going to bother rating those at all.
Watching the rating trends for the top images, a lot of images disappear off the top images page at random. even if they were very nice images, and if you look at them you can see the rating had gone down to, say, a 7 instead of a 9 or so. In general, the rating system seems to be only used on images people like in the first place, plus it's abused. ^^; Maybe it would be better to have a rating system that only let images get higher instead of being able to pull their ratings down. It would stop some of the abuse, plus it would be more useful because it would only be effective for images people like in the first place.
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Re: rating system mechanics suggestion

Post by anonymous_object » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:02 pm

Ah, yeah... I was pretty adamant about keeping the 1-10 rating system in the past but I'm starting to think that it does need to be changed/simplified. Not many users really use the rating system since it is a pain to rate the large number of images we now get daily. A single-click star rating system does sound more appealing these days.

So, the question is now how should changed to promote usage and useability? A 1-5 star system? A thumbs up/thumbs down system? I'm open to suggestions.
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wrexness
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Re: rating system mechanics suggestion

Post by wrexness » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:15 pm

Ah, my bad, Merun, though it doesn't change any of what I was saying. ^^

Count me in for supporting 1-5. I think it's a nice, happy medium. Even though I only give images about 4 different ratings, but that by itself speaks for a point in expanding beyond a yay/nay vote. It gives you enough of a range to distinguish between several different close images without being so wide that people wouldn't use all of the options.

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Merun
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Re: rating system mechanics suggestion

Post by Merun » Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:20 am

Maybe it would be better to have a rating system that only let images get higher instead of being able to pull their ratings down.
I agree on this one, plus a neutral vote choice for it.
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wrexness
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Re: rating system mechanics suggestion

Post by wrexness » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:55 am

I kind of agree with the principle of that positive-only rating thing, but how do you implement it? Is it a time-based idea where the more time passes, the less effective a vote is to keep people from going back well after the fact so a person can't poison a rating?

But why assume they're being negative for a malicious reason? Maybe they just genuinely don't like an image? Why make their opinion worth less because they happen to have a negative opinion of the image? And what happens if the first rating is a 10 (or 5, or whatever the perfect score is)? Does that mean the image stays perfect because its score can't be lowered?

Maybe I just don't understand what you mean by that idea...

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Yatchen
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Re: rating system mechanics suggestion

Post by Yatchen » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:04 am

I don't see any reason not to let people rate an image just because it's old. A new user comes on the site, finds an old image, loves it, why not let them rate it?

Maybe the score shouldn't be counted on a 1-10 scale at all either. Say one person rates it up and it gets a 1, then another person and it gets a 2, etc. If you did it like that it would be easier (because you'd only have to click one button to rate it) and if there was a rate down option it would only take the score down by one, so an image wouldn't be potentially going from a 9 to a 2, etc. There would be no way an image could be "perfect" because the score could constantly be going up based on how many people rate the image.
Though, now that I think about it, that sounds like most other image boards' rating systems >.<

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wrexness
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Re: rating system mechanics suggestion

Post by wrexness » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:28 am

Yatchen wrote:I don't see any reason not to let people rate an image just because it's old. A new user comes on the site, finds an old image, loves it, why not let them rate it?
I didn't say they don't get a vote, I'm saying their vote counts for less. (Like after a week, a vote counts for half a vote, 2 weeks 1/4 a vote, etc.) And you can't assume they're going to love it an rate it up. They could just as easily rate it down, which sounds like you have an issue with (but really, is it any less valid an opinion than someone who really likes that same image)?
Yatchen wrote:Maybe the score shouldn't be counted on a 1-10 scale at all either. Say one person rates it up and it gets a 1, then another person and it gets a 2, etc. If you did it like that it would be easier (because you'd only have to click one button to rate it) and if there was a rate down option it would only take the score down by one, so an image wouldn't be potentially going from a 9 to a 2, etc. There would be no way an image could be "perfect" because the score could constantly be going up based on how many people rate the image.
Though, now that I think about it, that sounds like most other image boards' rating systems >.<
Which anony pointed out as a possibility already. XD But I don't like that idea because it really doesn't take people who have a neutral position into account. You have a positive, a negative, or a non-response. I just don't think that abstaining from voting is the same as voting neutral on something because you're not giving input that can be including in the weighting with everyone else who votes.

I also don't like the idea of an up/down vote on images because opinions on art aren't nearly that cut and dry. Under an up/down, a vote for an image you kinda like counts the same for an image you absolutely love, which is also the same for one you dislike or one you absolutely hate. This isn't like voting for president where you pick one or the other, I think there should be more degrees of freedom for expressing your opinion through a vote.

I honestly don't see a problem with such vast changes in image rating (from a 9 to a 2, for example) because if you make more people want to vote, the overall opinion of the people will be better expressed. Just because an image goes from a 9 to a 2, what's wrong with that? Maybe the first 3 people who vote really like the image, but the next 50 hate it. Is the opinion of the first three more important just because they were quicker to vote? I don't think you can make blanket statements about score changes just because it's drastic.

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