The whole "gothic" tag....

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Velvet_dreams
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The whole "gothic" tag....

Post by Velvet_dreams » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:22 pm

I think,just as a suggestion,to change it.I mean you put the "gothic" tag to lolita pics and well its lolita not gothic in a sence,get what I'm saying?So I was thinking to make maybe "gothic lolita" and/or "suger lolita" tags and when other lolita start making the numbers create its own tag.The punkinsh pics don't really number up to make a tag but if so make a "punk" tag too.Sooooo if anyone takes to my idea I would be happy to take the job to convert all the pictures under the "gothic" tag to the right one.We still keep the "gothic" tag yes but only put it to gothic pictures A.K.A the real gothic of Europe,I don't feel like going into detail but you all know what I mean.Ex. Gosick would still apply in some pictures as gothic.^_^"I'm very picky when it comes to the whole lolita thing and gothic so I would be very pacific when taging.I would understand if you all don't trust me as a tager yet since I've only just created a account and have no solid proof I've been coming here as long as I've said{May 6th of last year} but it will annoy the stuffing out of me if someone tags something as lolita and it's gothic and vice versa.I'll also be adding in missed tags to thoughs pictures too.This will help ALOT in the search engine!^_^Hope to hear a reply a.s.a.p,I think it's a great idea.The convering would most likely take a day or two but consitering I have school maybe longer but the weekend is coming up so no problem.I say that in a short time since I tend to work fast and I tend to work on things through the night.
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Ran
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Post by Ran » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:40 pm

If we start to diffirentiate between different types of "lolita" fashion, then soon we'll be asked to start splitting up different types of every fashion. In the end, it's just not practical and there really are that many different pics to warrant splitting them up. Gothic punk, gothic lolita, and anything else in that fashion can all fall under the same "gothic" tag. While different in their styles, they are pretty much from the same origin.

The hair color bit is already a nightmare in progress without adding more diverse tags.
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Post by anonymous_object » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:42 pm

Hmmm... I can see this being valid but would you care to point out some examples with links?

I have looked at some of the images with the "gothic" tag and I do see some possibly misplaced images. I would like to see how you see it, however.
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Post by Velvet_dreams » Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:25 am

Okay then^__^Thanks for the chance to explain.
Well like this one http://e-shuushuu.net/image.php?mode=vi ... e_id=11421 Clearly gothic lolita

http://e-shuushuu.net/image.php?mode=vi ... e_id=11332
http://e-shuushuu.net/image.php?mode=vi ... e_id=11331
Both a vice-versa white/black still gothic lolita

http://e-shuushuu.net/image.php?mode=vi ... e_id=13989
A debate of gothic lolita to gothic but I see it more gothic since no ruffles.

-_-Why Hinaichigo is in gothic I'll never know but clearly an example of suger lolita.
All the pics from Triptych are punk but that one girl in all blue which is gothic lolita since there aren't pink fluffy things or stawberrys.The girl in the long black dress is gothic lolita clearly.
Kaori Minakami is all gothic.
So need anything else?Baicly if it's pink and puffy with ruffles coming in each way possible it's suger lolita and if the same but in black gothic lolita.If it has plaid and/or newish looks to it of vests,pants and what not clearly punk or well you can just tell it is.And gothic is coursets and peticoats of old Europe.Simple enough.
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Post by Velvet_dreams » Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:41 am

Ran wrote:If we start to diffirentiate between different types of "lolita" fashion, then soon we'll be asked to start splitting up different types of every fashion. In the end, it's just not practical and there really are that many different pics to warrant splitting them up. Gothic punk, gothic lolita, and anything else in that fashion can all fall under the same "gothic" tag. While different in their styles, they are pretty much from the same origin.

The hair color bit is already a nightmare in progress without adding more diverse tags.
What the heck do you think your saying?"They are pretty much from the same origin"!NO!Gothic and lolita ARE NOT THE SAME!Gothic has been around much longer and has a sence of elegance and age to it, while lolita is masqueraded around by teens in Japan and most adults.Gothic is from Europe and lolita from Japan clearly so not the same origin since lolitas say that there style has nothing to do with goth.Steel bones coursets to puffy ruffled skirts are not the same and never will be since the gothic community would shun the ones saying they're gothic. :oops: I get worked up when people think that things that are black are gothic.And the hair tag is very helpful and useful, and so what about the fashions,see anyone else complaining?No so I don't think that anyone is going to suggest any.Lolita would be fine as a solitarty tag just not gothic to justify them all.
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Post by Smithy » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:23 am

Adding a lolita tag would be a very bad idea, for the same reasons adding a loli, yuri, pantsu or yaoi tag would be a bad idea.

But the statement that having only one fashion tag, gothic, is not sufficient to label the different fashions may hold value. Perhaps it would then be best to remove the gothic tag and have no fashion genre related tags?

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Post by Merun » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:37 am

Both have in common Victorian fashion, then differ. Both started in the same period of time, meaning 1970s ( and according to Wikipedia, it's even in the late 70s for "Gothic" ).

Then the things you need to remember is we, the whole tag team, mod team, and the user, are not versed in the culture of gothic nor lolita as you said, so if it's clear for you, it's not for us. It's already hard to determine the level of a pic to put the "gothic" ( with both style merged ), as you said, black isn't necessarily gothic. Things have to remain user friendly.
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Post by Gardenia » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:01 am

I knew someone would complain about this sometime. I'm also fond of lolita fashion. Sugar lolita? You mean sweet lolita?

Anyway, as much as I disliked the fact that anything victorianesque was labled "gothic" (seeing the modern negative connotations that come with it), it's just waaaaay too specific for tags. There are so many outfits that are borderline anyway. And to have a tag that is simply "lolita" would cause problems because of its other very controversial meaning.

I understand how you feel about the sweet lolita/shiro lolita pictures. Like this one- http://e-shuushuu.net/image.php?mode=vi ... e_id=76862
But, I think Merun's explaination on the meaning of the word gothic clears it up. The only big difference really between lolita and victorian fashion is that the dresses are shorter. So hopefully his explaination will make you feel better about having it, because, simply put, to make it anymore complex than it already is would spell out doooooooom.

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Post by AngelLily » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:54 am

Also, be sure to respect those that are trying to talk to you. Your little outburst at Ran was uncalled for.

I'm also against the creating of a lolita tag. It'd most certainly create havoc among users. The great majority of them not only don't understand as much of lolita fashion as you expect them to, but they also do not read tag descriptions. "Oh, a lolita tag? I shall now start posting loli pictures!".
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Post by canis » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:39 am

Merun wrote:Then the things you need to remember is we, the whole tag team, mod team, and the user, are not versed in the culture of gothic nor lolita as you said, so if it's clear for you, it's not for us. It's already hard to determine the level of a pic to put the "gothic" ( with both style merged ), as you said, black isn't necessarily gothic. Things have to remain user friendly.
Totally agree. There are already so many tags that I can't remember them at all and probably miss out some when I post an image. If we go even more into details it will just become a mess cause as Merun said, not everyone is an expert on every field. While you can tell gothic from wannabe gothic appart most people here can't.
It's like starting fighting about Shana's haircolor: Is it "red" or "some kind of fire orange", if it's the latter we MUSTN'T give her the "red hair" tag! :roll:

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Post by Ran » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:51 am

Both are revolved around the same style in essence. The "lolita" trend is merely a spawn off the gothic trend. They just invoke colors to give off a youthful appearance and not necessarily a dark one. Curly hair, frills, corsets, poofy dresses, and the like are enbodied by both and for practical purposes should remain under one tag. There's no sense in creating and re-labeling a mass of images due to a difference in minor details.
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Post by ReikoChan » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:47 pm

Velvet_dreams wrote:
Ran wrote:If we start to diffirentiate between different types of "lolita" fashion, then soon we'll be asked to start splitting up different types of every fashion. In the end, it's just not practical and there really are that many different pics to warrant splitting them up. Gothic punk, gothic lolita, and anything else in that fashion can all fall under the same "gothic" tag. While different in their styles, they are pretty much from the same origin.

The hair color bit is already a nightmare in progress without adding more diverse tags.
What the heck do you think your saying?"They are pretty much from the same origin"!NO!Gothic and lolita ARE NOT THE SAME!Gothic has been around much longer and has a sence of elegance and age to it, while lolita is masqueraded around by teens in Japan and most adults.Gothic is from Europe and lolita from Japan clearly so not the same origin since lolitas say that there style has nothing to do with goth.Steel bones coursets to puffy ruffled skirts are not the same and never will be since the gothic community would shun the ones saying they're gothic. :oops: I get worked up when people think that things that are black are gothic.And the hair tag is very helpful and useful, and so what about the fashions,see anyone else complaining?No so I don't think that anyone is going to suggest any.Lolita would be fine as a solitarty tag just not gothic to justify them all.
I agree with you 100%. Gothic I consider Europe Gothic, not Gothic dresses of lolitas or whatever. It reminds me of the label, and I hate labels. I've seen Punk images that are tagged as Gothic, and I'm like " Err..That should be considered punk, not Goth. I rarely ever use the Gothic tag for my images. If anything, I'd use it for Europe Gothic stuff. Also, I hate when images are tagged Gothic, just because the character is dressed in black. Most images on the board are tagged like, and it doesn't make much sense to me at all. I mean, I wear black all the time, but that doesn't mean I'm a Goth. It's kind of like stereo-typing. And every picture that has Europe Gothic style of dress and NOT in black, is never tagged as Gothic. It utterly annoys me. >__> But, anyway, even though your idea sounds good, the mods are not gonna go for it, sadly. But it's nice to see that someone had the same feelings as me about the whole Gothic tagging. ^^

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