Shuushuu Rules Update

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anonymous_object
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Shuushuu Rules Update

Post by anonymous_object » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:40 pm

After discussion with the mod team, I have decided to drop the restriction on posting images from artist websites.

I don't think it is right of us to selectively prohibit images that come from certain sources. If an image is from an artist website, it would not be allowed yet if the same image came from a artbook scan or any other source, we would allow it. It doesn't make sense for us to try to only justify disallowing website images and still allow all other sources. I see this as a double standard and intend to do away with it entirely.

From now on, we will be allowing images from all sources but we will be placing more emphasis on properly crediting artists. With our new artist tagging system, we're becoming quite effective at crediting the correct artist of an image which I believe is the main reason artists do not want their images reposted.  The wiki is and will continue to assist by providing additional information on artists listed on shuu. In order for us to label an artist as "prohibited", we required knowing the artist's name and site meaning we already have the information to apply the right artist tags. Thus, on all of these images we will be able to credit the artist.

I don't think it's a perfect alternative but I feel satisfied with the notion that while we would be disregarding these "do not copy" requests, we would also be fully crediting the artist.
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Re: Shuushuu Rules Update

Post by Gardenia » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:45 pm

Forgive me if I misunderstood. I had to read quickly and have to leave soon. However, I don't think it's right to post images from sources that prohibit republication. I find it disrespectful to the artist's wants. I know some people would say "BAWWW IT'S THE INTERNET", but if that doesn't appeal, there are copyright infringments. Artists don't want their art widespread because they know even if they have proper credit, they know people steal their hard work or modify it.

If you're only talking about scans, well, that's another story. The artist sold their artwork to people. It's kind of their property now and if they choose to upload it, well, that really sucks because that hard work won't make a profit for them now, but nobody's going to stop anytime soon. However, I still think we need to be cautious about posting from sites regardless.

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Re: Shuushuu Rules Update

Post by anonymous_object » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:22 pm

Well, I'm not going to deny it's going against what an artist is requesting... but realistically speaking, everything on shuushuu "infringes" on copyrights. And, in fact, artists don't just make this request on their sites. Fuwari pointed this out from one of Mikeou's artbooks.
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/4933/img0047yt1.jpg
It basically says that reposting, scanning, copying of this work (book) is prohibited. You can find similar 'do not copy' statements on game discs, etc. Buying a artbook or game doesn't change the opinions of the creators. I've never seen anything say it's ok to copy if you buy the book or game...

If shuushuu strictly followed artist's requests, no image would be allowed and the board would cease to exist. I am just changing the rules to be consistent. We are already posting artists' images without their consent. Shuushuu is an image board... this is how it works. We are just applying the same reasoning to all sources now -_-;
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Re: Shuushuu Rules Update

Post by Smithy » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:33 pm

Gardenia wrote:If you're only talking about scans, well, that's another story.
Actually it's not, any unauthorized reproduction of such written material is copyright infringement. Buying an artbook does not transfer copyright or ownership of the works depicted therein in any way, it does not give the owner of the book any rights to copy, scan or distribute the contents of that book, those remain with the creator and/or publisher (or original copyright holder).

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Re: Shuushuu Rules Update

Post by Gardenia » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:46 pm

Sorry if I upset anyone. I wasn't trying to insult anybody. As for the "BAW THIS IS THE INTERNET" comment, it wasn't aimed at you, Anony. I can see your intentions are 100% pure as you're trying your best to credit the artists, which is something I believe is very important.

I see your point. I was just being absent minded. Nearly all artists have a copyright on their work. Just not all state they don't want their artwork to be reposted. However, I just put myself in their shoes. If I was an awesome artist I and I put a copyright on my things it'd probably only be intended for character designs. (I think you can do this? It's something I heard about on DeviantArt.) I wouldn't care if my art was distributed as long as I was credited. I'd want to share. BUT, if I had specifically put a nice sign in more than one language on my site not to distribute and someone did, I'd be upset. I'd be even more upset if someone had modified or stole my hard work. So, in short, I still feel bad about it. At least the ones putting out multiple, high quality art books are successful enough to not be knocked down so easily. Some of the smaller, less successful ones make small prints or books to sell at comic conventions. Those are the ones I really feel bad about, but I'll put aside my personal feelings as I understand the situation. I know I should just discard the feeling altogether since it's not beneficial. Besides, I'd love to share all my favorite artists with everyone that do not allow reposting.

As for uploading scans, I was not justifying it by saying the people who bought it reserve the right to do whatever with it. I'm saying they own the artwork now. There's really nothing that's going to stop them from uploading. (At first I thought, "not even a multilanguage warning about redistribution, but since Fuwari's comment I see that I'm wrong). I understand this is the net and pirating is not going to stop anytime soon. Again, I don't believe this justifies anything, but I feel it's less of a problem for them as opposed to small time artists as I said earlier. Then there's the other side to this. Quite frankly, I'd be really sad on all the art I'd be missing out on if these images did not exist, and it has it's benefits. Your giving exposure to a bigger fan base and many will probably want to own physical copies or simply support the artist. So in conclusion, there is no argument here. I'll try to put aside these feelings, relax, and enjoy the "new" art. I'll probably give in very shortly and share some of my own favorites with everyone.

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Re: Shuushuu Rules Update

Post by Smithy » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:38 am

Don't worry Gardenia, you didn't upset anyone with your statements and I think we can relate to them or understand them to a large extent.
I believe (but could be mistaken) that anony has based his decision on what would be most practical and least hypocritical way of doing things considering the valid legal implications of copyright.
Gardenia wrote:As for uploading scans, I was not justifying it by saying the people who bought it reserve the right to do whatever with it. I'm saying they own the artwork now. There's really nothing that's going to stop them from uploading.
That's actually not entirely correct, if you buy an artbook, it does not give you any ownership of the artworks portrayed therein and you are legally not allowed to reproduce it or upload/distribute its contents to the Internet (or other media).
In legal terms of copyright, scanning and uploading an artbook you bought and paid for is as much a copyright infringement as resposting an image from an artist's website that has a disclaimer not to repost his/her images. Legally and logically they are the same infraction.

When you purchase an artbook (or say a CD, DVD), you do not aquire any ownership or copyright rights over the contents, nor do you have any legal rights to copy those contents, you only have the right to the contents for personal use (which excludes reproduction).

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Re: Shuushuu Rules Update

Post by Gardenia » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:45 pm

Smithy wrote:Don't worry Gardenia, you didn't upset anyone with your statements and I think we can relate to them or understand them to a large extent.
Ah. I'm glad.

As for the art book thing, I think you misunderstood. I'm not saying people own the right to upload the book. I was saying something else, but it sounds totally naive, so I won't even go there. Lol.

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Re: Shuushuu Rules Update

Post by yurie~hime` » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:33 pm

@_@ Uhm.. I think this way would be helpful to the artists? I mean, most of the imageboard's images are done by artists from Japan.. with japanese sites (mostly unknown to us before). And most of us can't fully read the sites or know the sources, to start with. Now that we know who does a certain image, we can now know more about the artist, visit their site, start to support/love their works and share the knowledge to others. I think the artist would be happy if he/she knows that foreign fans are loving his/her works.
I noticed in Kuraku's site that there are fans leaving her comments/messages about her artworks. Though she can't fully express it in english, she was really happy foreign fans love her works.
Uhmm.. @__@ That's what it think.. uhm..
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Re: Shuushuu Rules Update

Post by dancu » Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:04 pm

okay so now images from artist that dont allow repost are fine, but um what if the artist sends an email requesting shuushuu not to repost images. I'm guessing shuushuu will comply then?
just wanted to know

also the images that were previously disabled because artist did not allow repost are being brought back?
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Re: Shuushuu Rules Update

Post by anonymous_object » Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:33 pm

dancu wrote:okay so now images from artist that dont allow repost are fine, but um what if the artist sends an email requesting shuushuu not to repost images. I'm guessing shuushuu will comply then?
Most likely, yes.
dancu wrote:also the images that were previously disabled because artist did not allow repost are being brought back?
It hasn't been formally discussed among the mods, but yes, we will probably be re-activating most of these.
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Re: Shuushuu Rules Update

Post by Quenlin » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:34 pm

*twitch*

Ha... half of... me wants to... strangle.. you since... i spent time... compilling that list.... of artists... and got the.... the balls rolling...

Other half... wants to... glomp you *twitch*... and squ... squeeze your... eyes out of their... sockets... no homo...

*This post was written while having a pseudo-seizure from the conflict of interest.

Seriously now, this is a good thing, I've seen a lot of images get disabled, even though they weren't on the artists site at all. But I do have to say this; if they directly request by direct contact, then I really think that it would be in everyone's best interest to respect their requests.
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Re: Shuushuu Rules Update

Post by dancu » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:24 pm

thanks for the answers
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Re: Shuushuu Rules Update

Post by Merun » Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:28 pm

If an artist want his art to be removed, we will do as such since they are the legal copyright owner.
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