Shuushuu Points! (April Fool's 2009!)

Important stuff goes here?
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V_Phantom
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Re: Shuushuu Points!

Post by V_Phantom » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:22 pm

anonymous_object wrote:***How to get Points***
-Each image upload is worth 100 points
-Each comment is worth 5 points
-Every $1 you donate to shuushuu gets you 300 points
Hmmmmmm... Considering my own criminal record, an incentive to raid the board with 'quality' comments... :?
anonymous_object wrote:I know not everyone will like these new changes, but bandwidth costs have gone up and we need a way to offset the leechers. Since Animepaper seems very popular with this type of system, we're confident that Shuushuu can make the transition as well.
Hmmmmmmm...

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Yukino_Asakura
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Re: Shuushuu Points!

Post by Yukino_Asakura » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:36 pm

I don't like much the new system...I have posted many pics and comments in the past because I had time to it, now I just have time for be around and I liked spent it viewing pics and posting in a very few of them... Now post and pics are needed for view them and my past ones will not count? Is very unfair in my opinion... :/
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Kagemaru
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Re: Shuushuu Points!

Post by Kagemaru » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:57 pm

Okay, that does it. I'm out. Asking for donations is fine, pretty much any site needs that to keep it in the air, but making your own members pay before they can do anything on the board is just too much.

Demote me from being a mod, ban me, I don't care. As long as this system stays, I won't be returning to this board.
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Sig made by drake-sama~! ^_________^

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Merun
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Re: Shuushuu Points!

Post by Merun » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:08 pm

in short people can have at max 1500 points with image upload. So they can only see 15 images per day with a size bigger than 500kb... people should use JPG now... ¬.¬
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Andell
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Re: Shuushuu Points!

Post by Andell » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:31 pm

I think it would become problematic to proceed this way, Ran. Let's take a look at the future life of an e-shuushuu member:

- Pictures, pictures, pictures. Oh, cute one ! *stares at limit left to see* :o SHOOT ! I won't be able to view the other pictures now. What will I do ? :? *thinks a second, then go collect a few random, low quality pictures* These should do; they won't be reposts anyway. :roll: *posts them, then continue browsing* Pictures pictures pict- *freezes in front of his screen* :shock: What the... What's with all these bad pictures ?!? I never thought I'd see that junk in E-Shuushuu ! And look at these tags; what happened ?

This is a little example of what will happen with the integration of such a system. To be able to see all the pictures, many pictures of lesser quality will be uploaded, impoverishing the image board. There will be exceeding load of work for taggers.

It will consequently make many of the images ignored. What was art appreciation will become most popular images appreciation as, naturally, everyone will look specifically at the most popular pictures. That isn't quite the goal of the system, right ?

If it isn't enough, the feeling of security, inherent to pleasure in such a board, will disappear from member's hearts, leading to bigger losses in the board population than you might expect. Personally, I'd be able to see about 1 or 2 image per day. I'd have to redirect all my attention to other picture sites instead of here, would it only be to post more pictures. As many others, I'd eventually just wouldn't come to post anymore, as the resources are elsewhere.

I guess there will be more efforts done to bypass the system than to contribute to it anyway. :|

In light of these arguments, I don't think the system can be expected to work/ameliorate the site's functionality. I do realize that there is fund problems, though, and this forum subject might help to make people think on how important it is to contribute.

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oleo_sidhe
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Re: Shuushuu Points!

Post by oleo_sidhe » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:08 pm

I think the new system is okay, I guess, but I have one thing to say.

If people get so many points for posting images, they will post more. That's good. But, once people start posting only for points, as I can see happening, the general quality of our images will definitely go down as people post more. Personally, I see a lot of images, but I only post the best or most interesting ones I can find. I try to make sure my images have some quality. But, I don't want to see people posting 15 crappy png sketch things just to get points. And if we start banning those, people will get tons of banned images, discouraging them from becoming part of the community.

I'll stay, and I love the energy you've put into the site, but this is a turn in a strange direction for shuu, and I can't see where it will lead.

EDIT: I just said what andell said. oops.

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A.Dantes
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Re: Shuushuu Points!

Post by A.Dantes » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:28 pm

Merun wrote:in short people can have at max 1500 points with image upload. So they can only see 15 images per day with a size bigger than 500kb... people should use JPG now... ¬.¬
The exact numbers will probably be subject to change. Its just not possible to see how they would do on an isolated environment like testing.

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Evangeline Mcdowell
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Re: Shuushuu Points!

Post by Evangeline Mcdowell » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:45 pm

The change in direction isn't all that surprising. With shuushuuu's growing popularity came growing costs. Shuushuu consumes an average of 45gb of bandwidth on a daily basis FYI.
I for one don't really like the idea of switching to a system like this. But this step was inevitable. We do realize its a big change, which is why we have thought about it long and hard. Try and see things from the administration's perspective.

The new point system aims to:

1) Keep costs down
2) Encourage participation in the community
3) Ensure e-shuushuu's future sustainability




~~~~~~~~ Some things that need clearing up ~~~~~~~~
V_Phantom wrote:
anonymous_object wrote:***How to get Points***
-Each image upload is worth 100 points
-Each comment is worth 5 points
-Every $1 you donate to shuushuu gets you 300 points
Hmmmmmm... Considering my own criminal record, an incentive to raid the board with 'quality' comments... :?
Moderators will receive new tools for this. Basically, commenting automatically gives you points, but if a comment is deemed as offensive/spam/etc, the points will be deducted from your current total point pool, so it just balances out.


In the future, we're looking to implement a system where you get "commission points" for pictures you uploaded... so the better quality pictures which tend to get downloaded more will earn the uploader points. This would further encourage uploading better quality pictures, over spamming the board with mediocre images. (Remember you only have a maximum of 15 images that you can upload every day)

The new point system also opens up the possibilities of tangible rewards for any future events. Again, participation is really the key. We have over 4000 active users, and yet only see a fraction of them really participating.

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mewmew_grl
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Re: Shuushuu Points!

Post by mewmew_grl » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:53 pm

this change is kind of nice. more people can be active. lol

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Yakui-tan
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Re: Shuushuu Points!

Post by Yakui-tan » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:58 pm

This seems like very bad idea to me. All I can see happening is a drastic decrease in quality - a lot of worthless images and pointless comments. I'd rather see the site require a subscription to view images than this.

And $1 for 3 images is pretty steep.

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wrexness
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Re: Shuushuu Points!

Post by wrexness » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:04 pm

That may be the goal, but you also have to balance it against the happiness of the users. Ultimately yes, Shuu is a dictatorship and not a democracy, but history shows us that seldom will a system last when it does not take the opinions of the "little people" into account.

Ultimately what I see happening is that the 'regulars' growing more and more unhappy with the system and eventually leaving Shuu for other free and easy options. If the site isn't easy to use (and this points system will make Shuu drastically more cumbersome and difficult to use), they'll go find a better one. If someone has to think twice about whether or not they want to see the full version of an image, you have a problem.

In effect, I think this will only succeed in achieving the first of your goals. The costs are going to go down because fewer people will visit and people will leave the site completely. The only participation that will be encouraged will be token at best, and you actually decrease the sustainability of the site because of decreased satisfaction and morale within the community.

As for the mod tools, ultimately I think that brings too much subjectivity into the discussion. What is spam and what isn't? Does a user have to contribute something 'meaningful'? What defines 'meaningful'? Is "I like this ^^" sufficient? Is there minimum word count? You're just opening up a whole new can of worms and adding more room for disputes.

Having had time to mull over the system, I'm aligning myself with Kage, but I'll be speaking with my wallet. So long as the points system is in place, I will not be donating money to Shuu.

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Yakui-tan
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Re: Shuushuu Points!

Post by Yakui-tan » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:13 pm

I think wrexness and Kagemaru have it right. How about we try a drastic measure like this points system if the bandwidth costs don't get covered by donations in the future? And we have a donation drive or something? :) Frankly, the site has been fairly low-key in asking for donations...I'd donate now out of guilt, but I really don't like the sound of this points system.

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Fuwari
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Re: Shuushuu Points!

Post by Fuwari » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:30 pm

As for myself, I don't see this as such a bad thing. Aside from my moderator duties, I probably only view 3-4 full-sized images a day (unless there's a flood of high-quality images I like, but that's exceedingly rare). The majority of images posted are below the 500kb limit, so it's not like 100 points = 1 image. As long as you're even a little active and not opening every single image posted on the board, it shouldn't affect you too much.


On a side-note,
wrexness wrote:What defines 'meaningful'? Is "I like this ^^" sufficient?
I find it hard to believe anyone could possibly regard that as meaningful. "I like this ^^b" probably crosses the threshold, though.

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Evangeline Mcdowell
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Re: Shuushuu Points!

Post by Evangeline Mcdowell » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:35 pm

Yakui-tan wrote:This seems like very bad idea to me. All I can see happening is a drastic decrease in quality - a lot of worthless images and pointless comments. I'd rather see the site require a subscription to view images than this.

And $1 for 3 images is pretty steep.
We have already done donation drives in the past. Those are stopgap measures at best and the root of the problem remained. As for the pricing scheme, the new system will take some time to fully implement. We're only at phase 1 of the implementation plan, so adjustments will be made keeping in mind the habits and mindset of your average imageboard member. We do want to keep the users happy too, so we'll be keeping this thread open for a while until we work the kinks out and compromise on the best pricing scheme. Your comment about spam and worthless comments and images is valid. The burden of screening those would fall once again to the moderators. This is the price we pay for the perks we get.

edit: Congratulations on graduating from anonymous, to someone with an identity Yakui-san ^^

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wrexness
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Re: Shuushuu Points!

Post by wrexness » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:41 pm

Fuwari wrote:As for myself, I don't see this as such a bad thing. Aside from my moderator duties, I probably only view 3-4 full-sized images a day (unless there's a flood of high-quality images I like, but that's exceedingly rare). The majority of images posted are below the 500kb limit, so it's not like 100 points = 1 image. As long as you're even a little active and not opening every single image posted on the board, it shouldn't affect you too much.
I myself am not much different. Most of my action on the image board is just paging down the thumbnails and opening maybe a few images per day. However, from what I gather, the points system is finite and doesn't restore at periodic intervals.

So under that system, eventually I'd get to the point where I would be forced to either post even if I don't feel a comment is necessary just to get points, or I would be forced to donate. If I don't do either, I'd not be able to look at full sized images again. Why should I have to post garbage just so I can get points?
Fuwari wrote:On a side-note,
wrexness wrote:What defines 'meaningful'? Is "I like this ^^" sufficient?
I find it hard to believe anyone could possibly regard that as meaningful. "I like this ^^b" probably crosses the threshold, though.
I agree with you completely, that particular sentence is not in anyway meaningful. But the question in total was does a comment -need- to be 'meaningful'? I think we would all be able to agree that something like, "OMG lawl nicee pictur" would be considered spam, but posts like that are few and far between.

But the issue is whether or not one sentence posts that convey a simple emotion be enough to be considered enough to add to the point total? And if that's the case, what's to stop a user from posting a bunch of 'valid' comments to various images just to gain points? How do you tell the difference between a user who is genuinely active and one who's just scamming the system? It's just too murky.

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