Discussion regarding the distribution of wallpaper art.

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solwyvern
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Discussion regarding the distribution of wallpaper art.

Post by solwyvern » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:31 pm

Rule: Please keep the discussion within the borders of tolerance and try to avoid mentioning anyting that might prove offensive to the other members. Also, please try to respect what they have to say regarding the matter.

Continued from
â–º http://e-shuushuu.net/image.php?mode=vi ... e_id=32605
Fettgans wrote:32600, 32601, 32602, 32604, 32605... all those wallpapers were made by members of Anime-kun.net
a-k wrote:Peut-on utiliser les wallpapers et les fan-arts ailleurs que sur Anime-Kun?
Non! Sauf si les auteurs respectifs en ont donné l'autorisation.
It means, you can't post them elsewhere unless those who did the wallpaper give you permission to do so. I don't see the point of uploading on e-Shuushuu pictures which come from on one of its members' website...
Smithy wrote:I'll verify what the other modeators and Anony think about this.

However, my own opinion is that while I can see your point, may I state out that technically (from a legal point of view) those very wallpaper creators are not the copyright holders (only the original artists or companies are) and are already violating copyright laws by creating those wallpapers and placing them online at anime-kun to start with... (except if each would have gotten permission from the artist or company holding the copyright to the original art, which I doubt).

So if we do disable, it would purely be out of curteousy, not because we would actually be obliged to do so.
anonymous_object wrote: I pretty much agree. I'm generally annoyed with most fan-made wallpapers as they are just some professional's work plastered onto some solar flared background or the like...
While this wallpaper seems a step above most, it's still not really original work and thus I don't think the "artist" has a right to deny redistribution.

Any one else care to comment?
amfest wrote:I think I've made comments from time to time about wallpapers that are just an extracted image thrown on a solid or patten background. There are some that rise above others . .expecially with vectoring . but in the end it's tracing thrown with typial effects like anon mentioned. I personally don't think they have the right to even say that anyone needs permission to display it elswhere even for the effort of putting said effets/backgrounds together. Now if they did their own well made fanart of said manga/anime and then threw that together in a wall then they can have a point there.

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solwyvern
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Post by solwyvern » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:32 pm

Firstly, I remain neutral regarding this matter, but I will give my opinions.
And, in the end, I will adhere to the majority decision.
(Oh yeah, being at the age of 19, my judgement changes drastically, so what I say may or may not be correct)
---------
Although, I have seen my 'fan-made-imitation-of-the original, vector' work being distributed around the internet(-4chan, iichan, danbo...)
And honestly, it degrades me to make anymore, but having a passion and desire to make them, I continue to make them.
In addition, it's also nice to look forward to what others have to say(good or bad) about the things I make.
BUT, I have never, never claimed myself to be an artist, (despite others calling me that)

Additionally, I work hard for most of my walls, taking days, sometimes weeks.
And the only request I ask is to not distribute. â†

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Post by Nemesis » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:21 am

solwyvern wrote: Now, regarding this, even if it is fan-art, the original character design still belongs to the original creator, does it not?
The person may claim the art to be his own, but cannot claim the charcter as his own, right? Correct me, if I see this wrongly.

Lastly, Wasn't there an unwritten rule that, if anyone complains about his/her work posted, only then will it be removed from the board?

agreed....

if the person that made the pic comes along and says that he/she dosent want the pics to remain active then disable Desu

cos as anony sed
Anony wrote:I'm generally annoyed with most fan-made wallpapers as they are just some professional's work plastered onto some solar flared background or the like...
all thay have done is add a background

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Post by Smithy » Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:18 am

I can see where you're coming from solwyvern but don't misinterpret what I replied to Fettgans's statement regarding Anime-kun stating that "Peut-on utiliser les wallpapers et les fan-arts ailleurs que sur Anime-Kun?
Non! Sauf si les auteurs respectifs en ont donné l'autorisation."

What I meant was that we would certainly be willing to disable the images out of curteousy towards anime-kun and the respective wallpaper creators but that we should not do so by enforcement or because we are obliged to. We can do it out of etiquette, but not that we should do it from any legal copyright viewpoint.
Very simply because when you make a wallpaper (or even create a vector) and put it online on even one website, you're already infringing on the copyright held by the artist or company that holds the original copyright.

When an original artist explicitely asks on their website to not duplicate or post their work on any other website, then not only is a basic curteousy to disable any images of their art that would be posted here, it is also because we are legally bound to the artists copyright of the original material.
When a wallpaper creator (as hard-working, creative or honest as he/she may be) asks to not duplicate their wallpaper creation on any other website, this is a request that can be fullfilled out of curteousy, however those wallpaper creators don't have any legal right to make such a claim since the fact that they added their wallpaper on the Internet may be in itself already considered as copyright infringement.

I think here it's mainly the issue of how Anime-kun may have worded it, they say "No, you can't use these wallpapers..." while not only technically, but legally the statement would perhaps be better worded as "Please do not use/copy..."

If you would ask that one of your wallpapers would not be distributed or posted here, we would all do so out of curteousy because you request it and respect you. If you would however demand it, seemingly based on a right you hold on the image (which you don't), then you may not get such a positve reaction. So it's more a play of words really...

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Post by shawurai » Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:53 am

Hum well I can't really express an opinion on the subject. I don't make any wallpapers (never tried do make one) but I do make a couple of CD labels and CD/DVD case covers ones in a while. The art used comes from various places. I actually just have about 10 image folders on my drive to save all kinds of images in that look interresting. It's like stocking material to work with.

I'm aware that somewhere along the way there is a copyright on the image or someone doesn't want the image to be redistributed. And by making a cover or label I'm altering the original work so I guess it's the same as making a wallpaper by using an original art...
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Post by Smithy » Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:00 pm

shawurai wrote:I actually just have about 10 image folders on my drive to save all kinds of images in that look interresting.
968 image folders here (anime related images only)... I'm surprised it isn't more actually.

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Post by anonymous_object » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:29 pm

Heh, I have ~111,000 anime images using 19gb :D
Oh, that's excluding shuushuu images and manga ;)
e-shuushuu!
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Post by solwyvern » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:54 am

Smithy wrote:
I think here it's mainly the issue of how Anime-kun may have worded it, they say "No, you can't use these wallpapers..." while not only technically, but legally the statement would perhaps be better worded as "Please do not use/copy..."
I see..
So reading that statement, it appears that it is demanding that the wallpapers be not reproduced and distributed on any other site with the permission of the creator, when, in fact it should be more of requesting that it should not be distributed.

Although, I have encountered other people who do complain about their own work being posted elsewhere, (and in the worst case, they even get insulted for 'demanding that it be removed'). Most of them really can't do anything about it. (And they are certainly not aware of the copyright infringement they have all ready done.)

So in the end, it is at the discretion of the person downloading the image, wheter he wants to distribute it or not. and as it was seen, the anonymous baka who posted certainly paid no attention to the statement of anime-kun about distributing the wall.

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Post by camili » Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:45 am

okay you're right. this art is not my own art, and i'm not the original artist,...but we wallers
always write that the picture is by the respective owner and not our art,.. i don't mind if somebody upload my walls. the only condition is, that beside the copyright for the artist, there have to be another copyright for the one who work with it, also they don't have the right to say, that they made the wall. for example : *and yeah its not naru nanao, mikeo is the artist* mikeo feat. camili... because, if you only copyright the artist, then the whole wallercommunity don't need to make wallpapers ever again, and there are a lot of wallpapers, which show the original pic in such a beautiful way, don't you think thats very sad, when there are just the original pics. so please, be also kind to the one who put effort to made wonderfull wallpapers for YOU users!

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Post by Smithy » Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:00 pm

Camili, I don't think the issue was really about giving credit, we'd certainly not mind giving credit to a wallpaper's creator or disabling a certain wallpaper out of courtesy if the wallpaper's creator requests as such.
The issue was that a wallpaper's creator would have any real -legal- rights to command the use of a wallpaper, which would not be the case and somewhat odd if the wallpaper at the base contains an image that is copyrighted by the original artist.

There certainly are some sublime wallpapers out there made by people who put in a lot of effort and work and even show tremendous talent, and we surely appreciate and respect that.
Alas that doesn't change the fact that there's no real legal right on the original art by the wallpaper creator, that right remains with the original artist. If we'd really dot all the i's though there'd be no e-shuushuu (since we wouldn't be able to post any images, except those with permission, good luck getting any...).

Maybe we can add a 'wallpaper by' field or add the wallpaper creator name in the comment field?

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Post by Ran » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:09 pm

I try to credit Wallpaper or Vector creators in the Image Caption field.
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Post by solwyvern » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:52 pm

Wallpapers are of course fan-made material made either out of personal interest or for the community.
camili wrote:okay you're right. this art is not my own art, and i'm not the original artist,...but we wallers
always write that the picture is by the respective owner and not our art,..
Yes, that's a given, ...but not everyone does it.
Sometimes it becomes hard to tell the difference between waller and artist, because some walls are really worked on.(like digital paintings,background design) So the waller in this case should also deserve artist credit.^^

...but nonetheless we try to give credit and respect to both, if we know it.
The main point of the topic was whether to allow the walls distribution on ShuuShuu.

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Post by camili » Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:46 pm

^^ i think it would be great if there would be a wallpaper by comment field, then both side would be more satiesfied than now.

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Post by MahoroSakiMay » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:03 am

Though this is a bit old, I thought I would just add a few comments.

I do see both sides somewhat, but ... I think those who are being a bit possessive of their hard work (understandable) ... should remember that they love the anime/manga, and so do the people that upload, download, share the beautiful wallpapers.

It is the love for the anime that is important. In fact, one should feel quite flattered and honored finding their work elsewhere, for the simple fact it is that admired and desired!

Other than that, I agree with what is above, if you don't want it out there, then only give it to those whom you wish to enjoy it. I would personally feel that way at first, just because from past experience of my artwork ... well, an artist is their own worst critic. It doesn't have to be bad to be anxious about others seeing it and possibly giving a harsh review if you are not emotionally prepared for the constructive criticism.

I guess there isn't much more to say. Anime is beautiful art, and hopefully shared if possible. Respecting the artist's wishes is in good etiquette.
ecchina no wa ikenaito omoimasu!

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