Difference between revisions of "Talk:Discussion: Page Formatting"

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I think the formatting of the artist page titles should be the final format.  Everything else would be redirects to the artist page.  And even if you searched for "''Noiji Itoh''" even though the actual article title is "''Itou Noizi / いとうのいぢ''"  mediawiki would still give you a list of the most probable results (unless there was no such page in the first place).  If people want to make redirect pages to the proper article, then that would be nice, but I think we should be concentrating our efforts on populating the wiki with data first.
 
I think the formatting of the artist page titles should be the final format.  Everything else would be redirects to the artist page.  And even if you searched for "''Noiji Itoh''" even though the actual article title is "''Itou Noizi / いとうのいぢ''"  mediawiki would still give you a list of the most probable results (unless there was no such page in the first place).  If people want to make redirect pages to the proper article, then that would be nice, but I think we should be concentrating our efforts on populating the wiki with data first.
  
−
I would like to add a couple things:
+
<pre>I would like to add a couple things:
−
1. For name formatting, if we do use the format Lastname Firstname / Jpname, I would recommend putting a comma between Lastname and Firstname so we have Lastname, Firstname / Jpname. I know in Japan lastnames are generally listed before given names, but not everyone knows this and we will also have non-Japanese artists listed here as well.
+
1. For name formatting, if we do use the format Lastname Firstname / Jpname, I would recommend putting a comma between Lastname and Firstname so we have Lastname, Firstname / Jpname.
 +
I know in Japan lastnames are generally listed before given names, but not everyone knows this and we will also have non-Japanese artists listed here as well.
  
−
2. I think I agree with Fuwari's suggestion to have just one name for an artist's page may be worth doing. I'm just concerned about linkability to some pages that may contain Japanese text. Not everyone has full Japanese text support and not all applications support it fully (JP text through IRC is a pain, for example). If we can do the redirects at a later point, then it's not a big issue.  Also, can wiki pages be renamed easily?
+
2. I think I agree with Fuwari's suggestion to have just one name for an artist's page may be worth doing.
 +
I'm just concerned about linkability to some pages that may contain Japanese text.
 +
Not everyone has full Japanese text support and not all applications support it fully (JP text through IRC is a pain, for example).
 +
If we can do the redirects at a later point, then it's not a big issue.  Also, can wiki pages be renamed easily?
  
 
3. I made a post on the shuushuu forums about H related doujins.  I think our template should somewhere include a field denoting if a work is H
 
3. I made a post on the shuushuu forums about H related doujins.  I think our template should somewhere include a field denoting if a work is H
Line 81: Line 85:
 
Otherwise, I agree with what Fuwari and Eva have posted ^^
 
Otherwise, I agree with what Fuwari and Eva have posted ^^
 
-anonymous_object
 
-anonymous_object
 +
Edit: What's a good way to organize these discussion posts? >_<</pre>
 +
 +
<pre>
 +
A couple more questions/suggestions/notes:
 +
* So artists like いとうのいぢ and Tony Taka would be written as Itou Noizi and Taka Tony?
 +
* And on that note, how will we do translations of names?  If the artist has a translation they prefer (such as Noizi-sensei), use that; if not, use the Hepburn system?  Elongate
 +
names to Itou instead of Itō?  Or use Itoh?
 +
* I think there should still be a section in the artist page for what studio(s) they belong to, similar to how circles are dealt with.  The only difference between the two
 +
is that one releases doujin goods and the other releases commercial goods.
 +
* The reason why I mentioned having only one name for the artist page is simply that I don't see any real purpose to having both names there.  As for Japanese in the URLs, I
 +
worry about that too... not really sure what to do about that.  Pages will still work in browsers without Japanese support (I believe), but there are other possible issues that
 +
may arise.  Unfortunately, we can't exactly force everyone to install Japanese. XD
 +
 +
Eva, your list of work type classifications is awesome. o_O.
 +
It may seem like overkill now, but it lessens the likelihood of having to go back and re-tag/reorganize everything later.
 +
 +
* Oh, last thing I want to mention; how are we going to do the lists later on?  Surely we can't list every single artist on a single page... is there any way of having a page
 +
that can auto-grab data from pages within a certain section?  For example, have a page titled "I" and have it grab all of the artists (but not circles) with family
 +
names starting with I.
 +
 +
-Fuwari
 +
</pre>
 +
 +
== Further suggestions ==
 +
 +
I'm at a big crossroads in my life right now, so I won't be able to help out as much for now.
 +
 +
{| cellpadding="5" style="background-color: #ffeeef; border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 75%;"
 +
| 2. I think I agree with Fuwari's suggestion to have just one name for an artist's page may be worth doing.
 +
I'm just concerned about linkability to some pages that may contain Japanese text.
 +
Not everyone has full Japanese text support and not all applications support it fully (JP text through IRC is a pain, for example).
 +
If we can do the redirects at a later point, then it's not a big issue.  Also, can wiki pages be renamed easily?
 +
|}
 +
Pages can be renamed via the move form accesed through the tabs on top (not applicable to special pages I think) so if a jp only article is written, it can be moved to the new page, and the old page will automatically become a redirect to the new page.
 +
 +
 +
{| cellpadding="5" style="background-color: #ffeeef; border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 75%;"
 +
| 3. I made a post on the shuushuu forums about H related doujins.  I think our template should somewhere include a field denoting if a work is H
 +
|}
 +
Noted, I'll add a ''Adult Content'' field to the new work template
 +
 +
 +
{| cellpadding="5" style="background-color: #ffeeef; border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 75%;"
 +
| Edit: What's a good way to organize these discussion posts? >_<
 +
|}
 +
hmm...use the + button above instead of editing the main discussion?  or maybe move this to the forums
 +
 +
 +
{| cellpadding="5" style="background-color: #ffeeef; border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 75%;"
 +
| * And on that note, how will we do translations of names?  If the artist has a translation they prefer (such as Noizi-sensei), use that; if not, use the Hepburn system?  Elongate
 +
names to Itou instead of Itō?  Or use Itoh?
 +
|}
 +
 +
Regarding artist name translations, I agree with Fuwari's system of translating.  I'd just like to reduce the usage of special characters such as ''ō'' as they are a hassle to type and most people usually don't know what those diacritic marks are supposed to mean anyway.  The 'proper' translation is really just a matter of proper research into the artists.
 +
 +
Heirarchy on name translation:
 +
# Preferred translation (listed in artist's website/publications)
 +
# Hepburn system
 +
 +
 +
{| cellpadding="5" style="background-color: #ffeeef; border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 75%;"
 +
| * I think there should still be a section in the artist page for what studio(s) they belong to, similar to how circles are dealt with.  The only difference between the two
 +
is that one releases doujin goods and the other releases commercial goods.
 +
|}
 +
 +
 +
Noted, I'll add the field in the artist template.
 +
 +
 +
{| cellpadding="5" style="background-color: #ffeeef; border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 75%;"
 +
| * Oh, last thing I want to mention; how are we going to do the lists later on?  Surely we can't list every single artist on a single page... is there any way of having a page
 +
that can auto-grab data from pages within a certain section?  For example, have a page titled "I" and have it grab all of the artists (but not circles) with family
 +
names starting with I.
 +
|}
 +
 +
I think the alphabetical listing of artists, works and circle categories would be sufficient.
 +
Besides isn't this is the reason wiki has a search function.
 +
 +
What you want has to be done manually like so...
 +
<pre>
 +
[[Category:Artists]]
 +
[[Category:Artists with names starting with N]]
 +
</pre>
 +
This will have to be done for every single artist, work, circle and studio.
 +
 +
----
 +
 +
--[[User:Evangeline Mcdowell|Evangeline Mcdowell]] 07:43, 5 December 2007 (EST)
 +
 +
== Image uploads ==
 +
 +
Almost forgot...Image uploads enabled... however 
 +
<pre>The upload directory (public) is not writable by the webserver.</pre>
 +
=(

Latest revision as of 08:51, 5 December 2007

Starting over from scratch... T_T 

Perhaps it is a bit presumptuous of me, but I believe it might be a good idea to discuss how the 
page layouts should be formatted at this point, before re-adding the data we had before.

    * For example, should the order of names be 'given family', 'family, given', or 'family given'?

I would suggest leaving artist name formatting according to the following standards

  1. For normal cases: 
       lastname firstname / jpname
    * take note of single space between slash and names

  2. For cases when only english name is given (eg. deviantartists/western pen names): 
       lastname firstname
  3. For cases when only Japanese name is available: 
      jpname

Consequently, if an artist has a work/circle that is the same as his pen name (eg Carnelian), the artist name has right-of-way. Circles and works should be appended with a "_circle" or "_comic" appropriately. You can still display the name of the work without the suffix by using | in the wikilink. An example would be: 

[[sample artist_circle|sample artist]]

)

This example will show the link as sample artist but link to sample artist_circle like this sample artist.

Also, everyone feel free to check/modify the sample template provided. 

 * Should studios be considered a subset of circles or made into their own category?

Merun's idea was that circles and studios would each have their own category. If Circles are linked with the artists, then Publishers/Studios are linked with works. This would indeed give more flexibility when it comes to searching for all games made by Typemoon for instance

* note: To keep things organized, lets keep the works lists in alphabetical order 

    * I was wondering if we could separate the Works section we had previously into subsections of
 doujin, games, anime, etc.

This would be doable provided we classify everything correctly form the very start. My suggestion on the divisions although it might be too much XD :

Classifications of work types:

  • Doujinshi / 同人誌
  • Doujin CG / 同人CG (cg cd's)
  • Doujin Soft / 同人ソフト (games, visual novels)
  • Doujin other / 同人その他 (posters, calendars)
  • Commercial Comic (whole) / 商業コミック（全） (Standalone Manga)
  • Commercial Comic (part) / 商業コミック（抜粋） (Compiled/Serialized Manga)
  • Commercial Magazine / 雑誌
  • Commercial CG / 商業CG
  • Commercial Soft / 商業ソフト
  • Commercial Novel / 商業ノベル
  • Commercial Artbook / 商業アートブック
  • Commercial Other / 商業その他
  • Anime / アニメ (not quite sure about this one as they are not usually the actual artists, but the lead designers for the art in these cases. It can alternatively be categorized as Commercial Other)
    * Possibly have just one name for the artist's page (instead of having Noizi Ito / いとうのいぢ as
 a page name, having just Noizi Ito or いとうのいぢ). Ideally (in my opinion), we could have a few
 pages with the artists listed in several ways (given name first, family name first, Japanese name,
 etc.) and have the links redirected to their main page.

Anyway, just some examples/ideas. I don't remember what the original template Evangeline came up 
with looked like either, so I'll stop here and wait for other's thoughts/opinions.

-Fuwari

I think the formatting of the artist page titles should be the final format. Everything else would be redirects to the artist page. And even if you searched for "Noiji Itoh" even though the actual article title is "Itou Noizi / いとうのいぢ" mediawiki would still give you a list of the most probable results (unless there was no such page in the first place). If people want to make redirect pages to the proper article, then that would be nice, but I think we should be concentrating our efforts on populating the wiki with data first. 

I would like to add a couple things:
1. For name formatting, if we do use the format Lastname Firstname / Jpname, I would recommend putting a comma between Lastname and Firstname so we have Lastname, Firstname / Jpname.
I know in Japan lastnames are generally listed before given names, but not everyone knows this and we will also have non-Japanese artists listed here as well.

2. I think I agree with Fuwari's suggestion to have just one name for an artist's page may be worth doing.
I'm just concerned about linkability to some pages that may contain Japanese text.
Not everyone has full Japanese text support and not all applications support it fully (JP text through IRC is a pain, for example).
If we can do the redirects at a later point, then it's not a big issue.  Also, can wiki pages be renamed easily?

3. I made a post on the shuushuu forums about H related doujins.  I think our template should somewhere include a field denoting if a work is H

Otherwise, I agree with what Fuwari and Eva have posted ^^
-anonymous_object
Edit: What's a good way to organize these discussion posts? >_<
A couple more questions/suggestions/notes:
* So artists like いとうのいぢ and Tony Taka would be written as Itou Noizi and Taka Tony?
* And on that note, how will we do translations of names?  If the artist has a translation they prefer (such as Noizi-sensei), use that; if not, use the Hepburn system?  Elongate
names to Itou instead of Itō?  Or use Itoh?
* I think there should still be a section in the artist page for what studio(s) they belong to, similar to how circles are dealt with.  The only difference between the two
is that one releases doujin goods and the other releases commercial goods.
* The reason why I mentioned having only one name for the artist page is simply that I don't see any real purpose to having both names there.  As for Japanese in the URLs, I
worry about that too... not really sure what to do about that.  Pages will still work in browsers without Japanese support (I believe), but there are other possible issues that
may arise.  Unfortunately, we can't exactly force everyone to install Japanese. XD

Eva, your list of work type classifications is awesome. o_O.
It may seem like overkill now, but it lessens the likelihood of having to go back and re-tag/reorganize everything later.

* Oh, last thing I want to mention; how are we going to do the lists later on?  Surely we can't list every single artist on a single page... is there any way of having a page
that can auto-grab data from pages within a certain section?  For example, have a page titled "I" and have it grab all of the artists (but not circles) with family
names starting with I.

-Fuwari

Further suggestions

I'm at a big crossroads in my life right now, so I won't be able to help out as much for now.

2. I think I agree with Fuwari's suggestion to have just one name for an artist's page may be worth doing.

I'm just concerned about linkability to some pages that may contain Japanese text. Not everyone has full Japanese text support and not all applications support it fully (JP text through IRC is a pain, for example). If we can do the redirects at a later point, then it's not a big issue. Also, can wiki pages be renamed easily?

Pages can be renamed via the move form accesed through the tabs on top (not applicable to special pages I think) so if a jp only article is written, it can be moved to the new page, and the old page will automatically become a redirect to the new page.


3. I made a post on the shuushuu forums about H related doujins. I think our template should somewhere include a field denoting if a work is H

Noted, I'll add a Adult Content field to the new work template


Edit: What's a good way to organize these discussion posts? >_<

hmm...use the + button above instead of editing the main discussion? or maybe move this to the forums


* And on that note, how will we do translations of names? If the artist has a translation they prefer (such as Noizi-sensei), use that; if not, use the Hepburn system? Elongate

names to Itou instead of Itō? Or use Itoh?

Regarding artist name translations, I agree with Fuwari's system of translating. I'd just like to reduce the usage of special characters such as ō as they are a hassle to type and most people usually don't know what those diacritic marks are supposed to mean anyway. The 'proper' translation is really just a matter of proper research into the artists.

Heirarchy on name translation:

  1. Preferred translation (listed in artist's website/publications)
  2. Hepburn system


* I think there should still be a section in the artist page for what studio(s) they belong to, similar to how circles are dealt with. The only difference between the two

is that one releases doujin goods and the other releases commercial goods.


Noted, I'll add the field in the artist template.


* Oh, last thing I want to mention; how are we going to do the lists later on? Surely we can't list every single artist on a single page... is there any way of having a page

that can auto-grab data from pages within a certain section? For example, have a page titled "I" and have it grab all of the artists (but not circles) with family names starting with I.

I think the alphabetical listing of artists, works and circle categories would be sufficient. Besides isn't this is the reason wiki has a search function.

What you want has to be done manually like so... 

[[Category:Artists]]
[[Category:Artists with names starting with N]]

This will have to be done for every single artist, work, circle and studio.

--Evangeline Mcdowell 07:43, 5 December 2007 (EST)

Image uploads

Almost forgot...Image uploads enabled... however 

The upload directory (public) is not writable by the webserver.

=(

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